Dealerships and Mirror Mazes Part 2
So, we get to the dealership where this truck is located. The one that is said to meet basically all of Jeff's criteria. The salesman whom Jeff had been speaking with over the last week was consistent with how Jeff had described him: No pressure, down-to-earth, comfortable to talk with. I may have never been in the spot where it comes down to making a deal, but we've met our fair share of less than desirable, pushy car sales people. And this guy was a breath of fresh air. Never once did we get the feeling he was a game player (he may have been but he never advanced it in our direction). So onward we go...
Because the salesman and Jeff had already briefly discussed numbers when Jeff decided to put a hold on the truck, we weren't surprised or offended when the salesman asked to run an appraisal on our car so he could start generating the trade-in offer (assuming we wanted to pursue the truck). We swapped keys and he left us for a good 10-15 minutes so we could look over the truck before we test drove it. Now, my interest in the truck only went as far as Jeff's. He is far more educated on what he knows will be practical for us, and functional for our new turf out in SD. THE main thing that led him to this truck in particular was the price in conjunction with the Nismo package which not all Frontiers come with. In addition to that was the factory upgraded stereo system which he said is pretty impressive against after market ones. (Whatever-as long as he's happy and it doesn't cost more than our current monthly payments, lol). Anyway, while Jeff was doing his own mental appraisal of the truck he reminded me of that whack-a-mole game. He'd bend over to look underneath the engine, pop back up to look over it, walk around the bed to look under the back, pop back up to look in the bed and at the tires, looked inside at the controls and buttons, etc...but I knew he was looking for something specific. He was looking for proof that it was the Nismo (off-road) as stated online. Most of the time vehicles will have a sticker that says "Nismo" (in this case), or "4X4", or whatever their fancy package is. But those are removable and that didn't bother Jeff that it wasn't advertised on the truck itself. What bothered Jeff is the fact that everything a Nismo should have to indicate it's a Nismo was not there! He started getting that irritated wrinkle between his eyes and decided to ask the salesman about the situation when he returned.
Basically, as advertised on Auto Trader, it was a Nissan Frontier 4 X 4 LE with Nismo package. However, as advertised on the dealerships website, there was no description for a Nismo package. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but as the customer wouldn't you think that the two should match? When we confronted the salesman about the differences in the website descriptions, he explained (as his manager had explained to him) that the dealership is not responsible for what Auto Trader posts in addition to their advertisements. (What??!!) So Jeff asks the obvious question, "When you advertise on Auto Trader, don't you have to tell it what the product is?" The salesman replied "Yes" but that Auto Trader will list all POSSIBLE additions to the vehicle advertised. We showed him the Auto Trader ad when Jeff brought it up from his phone. No where does it indicate that this truck "possibly" had a Nismo package. It said it is equipped with one. At this point Jeff reaffirmed that the salesman understood how far we drove to look at this truck, the fact that he had to take a day of leave to do it, and that it is THEIR responsibility to advertise correctly (on whatever website) what they are selling. The salesman was continually polite and apologized for the inconvenience but it got to a point where he obviously thought we were beating a dead horse about the discrepancy. I had been intentionally quiet until this point because I know Jeff is better at discussing vehicles...but now this man was in my territory. And in my firm Amy way (not a jerk way-just to clarify) I simply said, "I understand that we can't change what was advertised. But as the customer and with all due respect to your award winning dealership, I really don't care whose fault it was: Auto Trader or the dealership's. It is YOUR responsibility to REVIEW what Auto Trader is posting on YOUR behalf if you are indeed aware that they are doing so. Which apparently you are. More people choose to search through Auto Trader than through your website to find a (in our case "Nissan Frontier Nismo 4 X 4" ) specified vehicle and if you've authorized Auto Trader to advertise just that, then we expect this truck to be just that after driving 500 miles to come see it." (I promise I wasn't yelling or being rude when I said this-or whatever version of this it was). At this point it was obvious that Jeff needed to make a decision: did he want the truck or not? When the salesman left us to talk alone I took the liberty of creating a verbal pros and cons list to help him be at peace with whatever he chose to do (how very Rory Gilmore of me, I know).
The most important thing was that we be fine if we ended up driving back home in the Volvo. It was fixed, safe, and would just mean he'd have to keep looking. We had had a great day at the mall, fixed the car for free and to me the trip was worth it to just have fun with my hubby. We had such pure childish fun like we hadn't had in such a long time.
Getting back to the main points: The pros were that it was still a four door, 4WD truck which came with a couple fun things he wanted but never expected to be in his price range. I asked him how often he thought he'd use a locking rear diff (an aspect exclusive to the Nismo pkg) and if 4WD would be sufficient on it's own. I was basically asking him if he was just being THAT picky or if it was imperative that he had the Nismo. If it would do better for what he'd use the truck for then we could walk away and it's not a big deal-just a big bummer. The only downside was simply that it did not have the Nismo package.
*At this point I would simply like to point out that the following is our individual experience at this unnamed dealership. It is no indication for how your experience will pan out should you decide to go buy a vehicle. If you do not wish to read any further I will not be offended-I will simply ruin the ending to tell you that we bought the truck!
Now that I've exhausted that fact, Jeff decided to see what kind of offer the dealership would bring to the table and if it was acceptable for us, then the lack of a Nismo package would be acceptable for him and he wouldn't regret buying the truck as is. The salesman came back with the first offer and I almost laughed. The trade in value wasn't even close to our minimum for what we would accept and they were still asking for the full sticker price! After staring at the page for what seemed like a decade (the salesman and myself silent the whole time), Jeff finally spoke. Jeff said he couldn't believe they were still asking full price even after Jeff pointed out the fact that the sticker price was acceptable for a Nismo package-not what was currently sitting in the lot. Regardless of the fact they had come down on the price a week ago of their own accord, Jeff and I were willing to leave this one alone. "Well, let me go up to bat for you and see what else I can do," the salesman says. (Now were ARE playing games, I thought). In the meantime Jeff was still annoyed over this ridiculous situation and started to get up. The only reason he sat back down was because I asked him to, simply because I was curious about "the game" and I wanted to see how well I played, too. Not that I said that to him but he respected that I was open minded to a better offer.
They came back with a whopping $200 off the asking price and $200 more for our trade-in. I just looked at the guy and said "No." (I was thinking about the maze and trying not to compare the two situations-this offer was about is dumb as walking into your own reflection). Jeff made it clear they were wasting more of his time and he was happy to leave right now. It was my turn to bat at this game and I asked the salesman, "do you understand that you need BOTH of our signatures to make this sale?" I can't remember exactly what I said but I made it very clear Jeff wasn't the only one he should be making happy. There was another offer made to which I responded "you're getting closer." At this point Jeff was practically stuttering in frustration-he was over it. The salesman offered for us to speak with him along with his used car manager since we were having a hard time getting anywhere with their offers. Jeff thoroughly expressed to the manager that he was already disappointed in how unrealistic they were in the asking price given that AGAIN it's not worth that much without a Nismo pkg, that he didn't want to beat a dead horse but it has everything to do with finalizing a deal, and that he has to drive 500 miles home whether he does it in a truck or a car. The manager offered to do what he could to keep our business and make us happy. (My turn again!-because Jeff was at a loss): I said, "if you want to earn our business you need to bring a decent offer. One that will sit Jeff down in that chair again, meaning it needs to be your 100% BEST offer, bottom line. We are patient people who don't make rash decisions and we have no problem leaving without that truck if you're numbers aren't right for us. If it works out then cool, if not oh well." I gave him a low ball number that we would be comfortable with to which he would predictably meet in the middle, still keeping us much lower than what meeting in the middle of a higher number would put us. While they calculated I told Jeff to take a walk, lol, he needed it...Before Jeff returned, I got the first look at the final offer. (My thoughts were this: "oh good, that will make Jeff happy.) Jeff returned, took a look and gave the okay. It was afterward that I told them the trade-in they offered was my minimum anyway. The salesman said good (I think because he knew we wouldn't have signed if it was any lower-he would be correct!).
For the final cost of the truck they literally went for pennies on the dollar, something something and 47 cents. Whatever...so silly.
Amazingly, Jeff was able to make it this far without disclosing what we actually owed on the Volvo. This was always a hindrance for us because it seemed most dealerships aren't willing to work without that number. I think we all know why. So, when it came to the no-going-back-point and they asked about it, Jeff happily informed them. I say happily because up to that point the salesman assumed we owed only what they ended up giving us for the trade-in. Little did he know they ultimately offered a hefty down payment as well as paid off our Volvo. In addition to that newly learned bit of information, Jeff figured they would realize they should've taken his first offer from the beginning. Jeff was going to offer full asking price (when it was a Nismo) out the door (tax/tag/title) if they gave us (what they ended up giving us) for the car. Instead they gave us what we wanted AND we paid less for the asking price.
"Good game guys!" (Mentally smacking their butts as they walk back to their offices while we drive away).
I'm sincerely happy that Jeff is happy. If he said it would've been practical and happier for him to ride around town on a unicycle I would've tried to make it happen. I hate to sound like we ganged up on anyone but I feel we exerted excellent team work! And according to him, I have great negotiating skills and was the only one keeping him responsive to the whole ordeal. But seriously, it was worth it in the end. This truck will see weather and outdoor fun which we both preferred a Volvo didn't experience. A lot of prayers were answered financially on the final outcome and I know God was moving his hand in that weekend event. Safety was a big prayer of mine answered and I'm happy to be home safe with a happy husband who so lovingly keeps me involved as a partner when it comes to making or pursuing big decisions like this. I'm so thankful for the time we had at the mall and the silliness we displayed out of sheer sleep deprivation. My next prayer will be that we never have to go through another dealership experience like that again :) But I'd do the mirror maze in a heartbeat!
Because the salesman and Jeff had already briefly discussed numbers when Jeff decided to put a hold on the truck, we weren't surprised or offended when the salesman asked to run an appraisal on our car so he could start generating the trade-in offer (assuming we wanted to pursue the truck). We swapped keys and he left us for a good 10-15 minutes so we could look over the truck before we test drove it. Now, my interest in the truck only went as far as Jeff's. He is far more educated on what he knows will be practical for us, and functional for our new turf out in SD. THE main thing that led him to this truck in particular was the price in conjunction with the Nismo package which not all Frontiers come with. In addition to that was the factory upgraded stereo system which he said is pretty impressive against after market ones. (Whatever-as long as he's happy and it doesn't cost more than our current monthly payments, lol). Anyway, while Jeff was doing his own mental appraisal of the truck he reminded me of that whack-a-mole game. He'd bend over to look underneath the engine, pop back up to look over it, walk around the bed to look under the back, pop back up to look in the bed and at the tires, looked inside at the controls and buttons, etc...but I knew he was looking for something specific. He was looking for proof that it was the Nismo (off-road) as stated online. Most of the time vehicles will have a sticker that says "Nismo" (in this case), or "4X4", or whatever their fancy package is. But those are removable and that didn't bother Jeff that it wasn't advertised on the truck itself. What bothered Jeff is the fact that everything a Nismo should have to indicate it's a Nismo was not there! He started getting that irritated wrinkle between his eyes and decided to ask the salesman about the situation when he returned.
Basically, as advertised on Auto Trader, it was a Nissan Frontier 4 X 4 LE with Nismo package. However, as advertised on the dealerships website, there was no description for a Nismo package. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but as the customer wouldn't you think that the two should match? When we confronted the salesman about the differences in the website descriptions, he explained (as his manager had explained to him) that the dealership is not responsible for what Auto Trader posts in addition to their advertisements. (What??!!) So Jeff asks the obvious question, "When you advertise on Auto Trader, don't you have to tell it what the product is?" The salesman replied "Yes" but that Auto Trader will list all POSSIBLE additions to the vehicle advertised. We showed him the Auto Trader ad when Jeff brought it up from his phone. No where does it indicate that this truck "possibly" had a Nismo package. It said it is equipped with one. At this point Jeff reaffirmed that the salesman understood how far we drove to look at this truck, the fact that he had to take a day of leave to do it, and that it is THEIR responsibility to advertise correctly (on whatever website) what they are selling. The salesman was continually polite and apologized for the inconvenience but it got to a point where he obviously thought we were beating a dead horse about the discrepancy. I had been intentionally quiet until this point because I know Jeff is better at discussing vehicles...but now this man was in my territory. And in my firm Amy way (not a jerk way-just to clarify) I simply said, "I understand that we can't change what was advertised. But as the customer and with all due respect to your award winning dealership, I really don't care whose fault it was: Auto Trader or the dealership's. It is YOUR responsibility to REVIEW what Auto Trader is posting on YOUR behalf if you are indeed aware that they are doing so. Which apparently you are. More people choose to search through Auto Trader than through your website to find a (in our case "Nissan Frontier Nismo 4 X 4" ) specified vehicle and if you've authorized Auto Trader to advertise just that, then we expect this truck to be just that after driving 500 miles to come see it." (I promise I wasn't yelling or being rude when I said this-or whatever version of this it was). At this point it was obvious that Jeff needed to make a decision: did he want the truck or not? When the salesman left us to talk alone I took the liberty of creating a verbal pros and cons list to help him be at peace with whatever he chose to do (how very Rory Gilmore of me, I know).
The most important thing was that we be fine if we ended up driving back home in the Volvo. It was fixed, safe, and would just mean he'd have to keep looking. We had had a great day at the mall, fixed the car for free and to me the trip was worth it to just have fun with my hubby. We had such pure childish fun like we hadn't had in such a long time.
Getting back to the main points: The pros were that it was still a four door, 4WD truck which came with a couple fun things he wanted but never expected to be in his price range. I asked him how often he thought he'd use a locking rear diff (an aspect exclusive to the Nismo pkg) and if 4WD would be sufficient on it's own. I was basically asking him if he was just being THAT picky or if it was imperative that he had the Nismo. If it would do better for what he'd use the truck for then we could walk away and it's not a big deal-just a big bummer. The only downside was simply that it did not have the Nismo package.
*At this point I would simply like to point out that the following is our individual experience at this unnamed dealership. It is no indication for how your experience will pan out should you decide to go buy a vehicle. If you do not wish to read any further I will not be offended-I will simply ruin the ending to tell you that we bought the truck!
Now that I've exhausted that fact, Jeff decided to see what kind of offer the dealership would bring to the table and if it was acceptable for us, then the lack of a Nismo package would be acceptable for him and he wouldn't regret buying the truck as is. The salesman came back with the first offer and I almost laughed. The trade in value wasn't even close to our minimum for what we would accept and they were still asking for the full sticker price! After staring at the page for what seemed like a decade (the salesman and myself silent the whole time), Jeff finally spoke. Jeff said he couldn't believe they were still asking full price even after Jeff pointed out the fact that the sticker price was acceptable for a Nismo package-not what was currently sitting in the lot. Regardless of the fact they had come down on the price a week ago of their own accord, Jeff and I were willing to leave this one alone. "Well, let me go up to bat for you and see what else I can do," the salesman says. (Now were ARE playing games, I thought). In the meantime Jeff was still annoyed over this ridiculous situation and started to get up. The only reason he sat back down was because I asked him to, simply because I was curious about "the game" and I wanted to see how well I played, too. Not that I said that to him but he respected that I was open minded to a better offer.
They came back with a whopping $200 off the asking price and $200 more for our trade-in. I just looked at the guy and said "No." (I was thinking about the maze and trying not to compare the two situations-this offer was about is dumb as walking into your own reflection). Jeff made it clear they were wasting more of his time and he was happy to leave right now. It was my turn to bat at this game and I asked the salesman, "do you understand that you need BOTH of our signatures to make this sale?" I can't remember exactly what I said but I made it very clear Jeff wasn't the only one he should be making happy. There was another offer made to which I responded "you're getting closer." At this point Jeff was practically stuttering in frustration-he was over it. The salesman offered for us to speak with him along with his used car manager since we were having a hard time getting anywhere with their offers. Jeff thoroughly expressed to the manager that he was already disappointed in how unrealistic they were in the asking price given that AGAIN it's not worth that much without a Nismo pkg, that he didn't want to beat a dead horse but it has everything to do with finalizing a deal, and that he has to drive 500 miles home whether he does it in a truck or a car. The manager offered to do what he could to keep our business and make us happy. (My turn again!-because Jeff was at a loss): I said, "if you want to earn our business you need to bring a decent offer. One that will sit Jeff down in that chair again, meaning it needs to be your 100% BEST offer, bottom line. We are patient people who don't make rash decisions and we have no problem leaving without that truck if you're numbers aren't right for us. If it works out then cool, if not oh well." I gave him a low ball number that we would be comfortable with to which he would predictably meet in the middle, still keeping us much lower than what meeting in the middle of a higher number would put us. While they calculated I told Jeff to take a walk, lol, he needed it...Before Jeff returned, I got the first look at the final offer. (My thoughts were this: "oh good, that will make Jeff happy.) Jeff returned, took a look and gave the okay. It was afterward that I told them the trade-in they offered was my minimum anyway. The salesman said good (I think because he knew we wouldn't have signed if it was any lower-he would be correct!).
For the final cost of the truck they literally went for pennies on the dollar, something something and 47 cents. Whatever...so silly.
Amazingly, Jeff was able to make it this far without disclosing what we actually owed on the Volvo. This was always a hindrance for us because it seemed most dealerships aren't willing to work without that number. I think we all know why. So, when it came to the no-going-back-point and they asked about it, Jeff happily informed them. I say happily because up to that point the salesman assumed we owed only what they ended up giving us for the trade-in. Little did he know they ultimately offered a hefty down payment as well as paid off our Volvo. In addition to that newly learned bit of information, Jeff figured they would realize they should've taken his first offer from the beginning. Jeff was going to offer full asking price (when it was a Nismo) out the door (tax/tag/title) if they gave us (what they ended up giving us) for the car. Instead they gave us what we wanted AND we paid less for the asking price.
"Good game guys!" (Mentally smacking their butts as they walk back to their offices while we drive away).
CONCLUSION
We did end up staying over night in Minnesota rather than driving home on no sleep. Mainly because the process was mentally and emotionally exhausting for me. Our bank in Florida is in a different time zone and we cut it so close they couldn't actually fax the dealership that night. I didn't want to leave any room for error considering if there was ANY problem we'd only have the 3day/300mile return policy. Obviously, home is much farther away than 300 miles. We had to write them a holding check to cover the cost of our car pay off and the cost of the truck until the dealership received payment from our bank. This, of course; freaked me out because that is ludicrous! We got a loan because we don't have that much money to write you a check! lol. But supposedly this is just another dirty part of the game where they hold your check and legally can't cash it for so many days (while waiting on your bank to mail payment) in order for you to drive off with a truck which technically isn't paid for yet. The nice lady at our bank reassured me our check will never be cashed (better not be because I'm stopping payment on it anyway) and that this is just a limbo phase that occurs. All is well and paid for. We have a truck!I'm sincerely happy that Jeff is happy. If he said it would've been practical and happier for him to ride around town on a unicycle I would've tried to make it happen. I hate to sound like we ganged up on anyone but I feel we exerted excellent team work! And according to him, I have great negotiating skills and was the only one keeping him responsive to the whole ordeal. But seriously, it was worth it in the end. This truck will see weather and outdoor fun which we both preferred a Volvo didn't experience. A lot of prayers were answered financially on the final outcome and I know God was moving his hand in that weekend event. Safety was a big prayer of mine answered and I'm happy to be home safe with a happy husband who so lovingly keeps me involved as a partner when it comes to making or pursuing big decisions like this. I'm so thankful for the time we had at the mall and the silliness we displayed out of sheer sleep deprivation. My next prayer will be that we never have to go through another dealership experience like that again :) But I'd do the mirror maze in a heartbeat!
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